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Pammy Show full post »
Antigenderstereotypificationcrucader
Aussie-nudist  Take a deep breath in, then out, repeat the process three times - and if that does not relax you, see your GP for medication.
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Lefkippus
I long ago gave up trying to read what AGSC writes. If the person concerned has anything useful to contribute the only way they will be heard is to learn how to formulate their ideas first, and then commit them to print concisely. I do appreciate what Johannes Swagers has contributed. He makes a well argued case for small beginnings and staying grounded as you develop..
I have read with interest the goals of Worldwide Roar, but have yet to commit myself to buying any of the products. The reason that I am hesitating is as follows. I liked the August video very much, and said so. However, I have been disappointed again by the September video. The charity is Sports Allies, but yet again there was no evidence of any sporting activity in the September video, and no 'horse-play' or 'larking around' with the guys interacting and relaxing together. It is interesting to see how Angus composes the pictures for the calendars, but a video should be about movement/play/sport not entirely about the production of a static image.
I would also like to know when the Crowdfunding offers will end. It might help to bring forward my decision as to whether to buy or not. I also want to see what the October video is about and hear more detail about what is planned for 2020, before I decide.
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Antigenderstereotypificationcrucader
Lefkippus

You are off course free to purchase whatever you want to purchase. But your argument of not enough sport, or horse play, I think is a bit unfair to list as a reason, all the time the project is about spreading a message and an attitude more than providing tailor made visuals for your specific taste. To reach as a large audience as possible it is important to deliver a content that appeals to as many people as possible. Consequently we cannot get our favorite type of content in every scene or every clip. Some we will like more, some we will like less.

I just watched a few days ago the June 2018 clip of the WR18 subscription (but on the downloads it says 2017 - and on the clip itself the date is 2016). The intro to it, and start of it, I found brilliant! The rowers, among them Tom, Alfie, Jakob, Cameron and then some, taking out the boats from the boat house, and carrying them down to the river - in the nude. That part of it was very well made - both the shooting, the editing and what was going on in the clip, all of it done to perfection. Heaven knows how much the rowers had to wait, walk, walk again, to achieve a footage and edit so smooth - getting two boats out the door exactly at the same pace, and at the same moment (and then have this shot from several angles and ranges)? But my guess is this was not shot in one take.

Then they were on the water, well two of them were - plus two in a motorboat pretending to train them. Instead of several frames with different rowers swapping back and forth between them, all we got was Jacob and Cameron - and some of it even slowed down footage of them just rowing. You would probably have loved it, because it involved sport - my fingers were itching to re-edit the whole thing, and shorten in down. Not a bad word of neither Cameron or Jacob, or Tom and (was it?) Kian in the motorboat. But from a film and story point of view it was too little going on for too long, in my opinion. Plus the story that began in the beginning, just evaporated, since most of the rowers were not seen again - until it was time to bring the boats back up to the boat house. Since more than one boat was taken out of the boat house and brought to the river, that suggested more than one crew was going training - yet we only got Cameron and Jacob. So part of the story was not continued. Causing the footage that followed to be less interesting since it mostly was Jacob and Cameron just rowing in a boat. To break the monotony of it, if perhaps the other group had gone for a jog instead - so the frame would swap back and forth from Cameron and Jacob in the boat, and Alfie and his group jogging, or doing some kind of other training - both the story would have been better continued, and the footage and frames more engaging and feeling less to be the same over and over. 

Still, that is my opinion. There might be people who loved the June 2018 clip exactly cause they got to see Cameron and Jacob training in the boat on the river. But if every clip had been focused around sport, training or rowing - the clips would become predictable, and therefore could even feel boring after a while (unless of course the clips contained exactly what appealed to your own personal taste). Therefore variation is key to making the clips, as well as the photos, interesting. And making the products interesting for as many people as possible is key to getting the message across to as many people as possible. 

If the content is the same every time, you will have the same people as customers over and over. That will not spread the message the project is supposed to be about. 

To reach as many people as possible it is key not only the range and variation in models has to incorporate both different body types as well as a mix of nationalities and ethnic groups, but that also the content in itself offers something unique from time to time, making the various clips stand out especially. Whether that be training, or personalities, behind the scenes or as a advanced as little short films with a story, an interview with a humorist twist to it. or whatever it might be. Regardless what, the fact we as customers never would have known in advance exactly what we would be getting, would make us more curious and interested in the clips as a result. Since not knowing how something will be always will be more intriguing than expecting to get something - but then not feel entirely satisfied afterwards, cause you didn`t get exactly what you had hoped for.

But if you are getting something which comes as a total surprise on you, that surprise element will make the experience feel so unique, you will think of it as better than what you had expected. Totally opposite of when you expect to get something, get it - but because your expectation were so high, you still feel disappointed when the clip is over. Just as when the impressive intro to the June 2018 clip impressed me so much, my expectation flew to the roof - and therefore minute after minute with just rowing practice felt like an anticlimax. Or when you were disappointed cause there was too little sport and horse play in the September clip, after there had been so much more in the August one. 

Everything s relative. Therefore I will claim our own perceptions and expectations color our opinion of a clip more than what the actual clip does.
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Johannes Swagers

Hello AGTC, we can shake hands, I think. English is not my native tongue either, I also write as I think and I fear you miss some of my points too. My slight exaggeration is my way to agitate you a little and break through the barrier between the ways we think. I am certainly not against thinking out of the box, but I also do not believe that everything thought out of the box is for that reason alone a road map to success. I agree with you on the immense impact social media can have and how many people can be reached by that. This is certainly not to be ignored and can be exploited to spread the message of inclusion and acceptance. This will not automatically break the bank, I agree. Your suggestion about an adapted YouTube approach may even raise some money. This has to be worked out  as the current relation with YouTube is not in WR / Sport Allies favor. This takes attention, time, effort and skills besides all other things that have to be managed already. If not done carefully, success will be limited and the resources spent can be considered as wasted. I just warn to be cautious. I do not dismiss the idea on forehand. So much for the money side of this.

You too mention the importance that people trust the sender of the message. In this respect the rowing team was a gift sent from heaven. They practiced what they preached. Young bright privileged people with loads of opportunities to pursue their own personal interests, making an effort and speaking out for others. That is a very strong appeal. The message being a campaign against homophobia in team sports. Make people aware that gays may be fellow member of your own sports team / sports club, who can feel restricted in their development by homophobic behavior of other members. It is not very difficult to identify with such a message. The mix of this team and this message is a dream come true from a marketing point of view and resulted in lots of free publicity, in which the message could be spread..If the scope of the message widens, there is the risk of dilution and the appeal may weaken. Do not forget this is a gay/straight alliance, not a gay interests organisation. It very much reaches out to the majority of mankind, the non-gay community. The more people involved, the wider the message is spread. I agree with that without hesitance as far as liking and sharing is concerned. The more volunteers involved in production of content, the greater the risk of widening the scope to “making the world a better place for everyone” (oh oh,  I exaggerate again) and the attention of the general public would be lost. Most successful public campaigns have in common that people can identify with the (single issue) cause.

Does all this mean I am not in favor of any possible changes? No, certainly not. Social media? YES! Other sports? YES! Other nationalities? YES! Other countries? YES! Seeking attention of the mainstream in society? YES! All as long as the message and it’s bearers remain as genuine as the rowers were. Therefore: Naked calendar? YES! (Although I agree that nude male bodies will reach a lot fewer people than anything below the 18+ age limit. On the other hand, I think the calendar is an excellent eye catcher / crowd puller for mainstream society. Besides its reach, the proceeds enables Sport Allies to fund projects that do reach people below the 18+ age group. Although most certainly intertwined, remember that the products are a means to raise money and not the actual message/goal of WR itself. Until now we have seen a delicate balance there. If you want to change that formula, make very sure you know what you do). Using professional models? NO! Aesthetic photography above fun sports snapshots? NO! Widening the mission of inclusion and acceptance beyond (team)sports environment? NO! First, I think if you are respectful and considerate in your sports club, you will probably not be totally different in your work environment or neighborhood. Second, the more the mission/message is widened, the more its appeal is diluted. If you want to know what further motivates my choices, read my contribution of February 11th. We may have more in common than we thought at first instance. Have a nice day!

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Antigenderstereotypificationcrucader
Hello Johannes Swagers! Yes, we definitely agree on much, but not everything - which is why our agreement is genuine, cause human beings extremely seldom agree on everything - if they are totally honest with themselves and each other. But since we both are willing to listen to other people`s views and opinions - and are not scared of sharing our own - exchanging views serves a purpose, since we, at the same time, both get our own opinions weighed and tested, and inform the other of how we see the issue.

So allow me to address a few of the points you raised.

Starting with your fear the message could be diluted if more angles and media was brought in as vehicles of delivery for that message. My answer to that is simply to keep the message so short and precise that that would not be possible. That would also have eliminated your fear of the project to be mistaken for a gay rights group, since the latter list more causes than just inclusion, acceptance and respect. Since WR/ROAR is focused around attitudes and behavior - and not laws or specific issues of a legal matter - I would claim it would be impossible to mistake the project for a gay rights activist organisation. All the time it restricts is activity and message to inclusion, acceptance and respect for all, both in sports and society as a whole. In that respect WR/ROAR is more anti-homophobia, than gay rights - and as such is a non political organisation promoting respect and unity between people in general. Not a politically motivated activist organisation with political and legal goals. The idea is to convince people about what is right and best - not to instruct them of the same through laws and regulations.

Therefore I don`t share your fear the message could be diluted. On the contrary I only see positive sides to it being multiplied and spread.

Which also is why I think it would have been wise to move beyond just the scene of sports, in regard to the types of models included. This because restricting the models to only rowers and athletes both will limit the immediate potential market range; for two reasons: 1) Because rowers and athletes typically reflect a specific type of body and build. 2) The project will fail to reach potential customers not already tied to either sports or naked men types of projects. Resulting in the very likely outcome that the same limited number of customers will buy the products year after year - with few new additions.

Moving beyond the scene of sports, even though many people within the sports scene also could have other talents, also increases the opportunities to attract people with other talents than just their naked body and winning personality to the project. Whose talents again could be used to develop, expand and diversify the project in directions that both appealed to new groups of people, and that way spread the core message of inclusion, acceptance and respect even further.

The likes of you and me might be perfectly happy with seeing the guys in the nude and displaying their energetic and youthful personalities on screen in the films - or great looking bodies in photos. But for some people that is not enough to appeal to them. They might like a good story to accompany all the nudity and great personalities, or some form of competition, or whatever it might be. The point is such developments are best made by those who have the desires, ideas and talent to make them - instead of Angus and the original team attempting to adapt to new formats. They are great at what they are doing, cause that is how they like to do it - and thus grow and develop natural from that point and skill level. 

But other people, with other ideas of how to present the message and utilize the models, can also have great ideas. And since those ideas could expand the project to reach new groups of people, recruiting talent both in front of the camera and behind the scenes, from a wider range and different backgrounds than just sport, could be exactly what the project needed to grow even more. Provided they and the new products/venues advocated the same idealistic message of inclusion, acceptance and respect, I don`t really see a danger of the message, or the idealistic purpose of the project, being diluted. 

To reach as much people as possible with the message of inclusion, acceptance and respect, there are some key factors which needs to be in place.

1) The project needs both new and former models/rowers/students to appear in the project every year.

2) The project needs customers to purchase the products.

3) The idealistic message has to be preserved and looked after year after year - but without being presented in a way which exhaust or bores the customers, and potential customers.

4) The project needs the resources and platforms to produce, market and sell the products and promote the message.

The first point is one we customers can help improve, simply by providing such good feedback the individual rowers/students/models felt good about themselves, and about having taken part in the project.

The second point I have already partly addressed in my previous reply, suggesting that a greater variation in type of models, ethnicity, nationality and similar would extend the potential market. But another factor is that of price. The more expensive the products are, the fewer items will be sold. And with so much of the product range being digital films and subscriptions - where the major cost is in production and marketing, since after the digital products are online they are cheap to copy and download to customers (provided the site can handle the traffic without difficulty) - I question if it would not have been wise to lower the price of subscriptions of films and photos significantly (starting the crowdfunding with the digital products for 2021 and 2022 already now, but with a 90% opening discount for the first month of the crowdfunding - corresponding with a targeted marketing campaign on social media.). 

Since the 2021 and 2022 digital products would be cost free by the time they were offered at 90% discount the first month of the crowdfunding periode, thanks to massive marketing (Youtube and other social media) the number of people likely to allow themselves to afford to subscribe likely would have gone through the roof. Since not only people in the richer parts of the world would be able to afford subscriptions, but even a majority in the less wealthier parts of the world could afford to. So when the time came to shoot and produce the 2021 first, and 2022 around a year later, projects, it would not only have been clear how much money could be spent on transport, accommodation, locations and so on. But also if there would be a need to upgrade the download capacity to service all the new subscribers. 

With discounts being changed 10% every month, most people would have purchased the subscriptions early, leaving plenty of time for WR/ROAR to decide whether or not the download capacity had to be improved, and how many copies of the calendar, or coffee table book it made sense to print. And when the crowdfunder started again, the 2023 and 2024 subscriptions went on offer at 90% discount the first month, 80% the second, and so on and so forth.

The result would have been the message spread wider than ever before, and the financing of products arranged for more than one year ahead - not to mention a likely massive increase in funds raised for the Sport Allies charity projects. 

Even if some of the new customers only would have bought the heavily discounted future subscriptions, quite a few likely also would have bought earlier films - and some might even the current subscription, or other products too. So all in all it could have been a financial gold mine to have a campaign of this kind, since it would have brought a lot more customers, than otherwise would have been the case.
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